Synopsis of Events:
Summary: We mistakenly listed an unavailable item for sale on ebay, offered comparable substitutes, and refunded Bill's money and more. Bill suggested no alternative resolutions and left negative feedback after receiving his refund. Interestingly, Bill did not want the item he bid on.
Unavailable item listed in error: We listed an item in error, a bifold (two joined leaves) out of an incunable, printing date 1491. Bill bid on and won this item. Link to item listing.
Proposed resolutions: When we realized the item was not available, we explained this mistake, apologized and offered comparable substitutes at the same price to Bill, or a refund of his money, adding any postage and money order fees he had paid.
Bidder believed item was something else: Bill apparently believed the item was something other than what it was described as. In the item listing, along with both sides of the bifold for sale, we also picture the colophon (the last leaf of the work showing the date of printing and place of publishing), for reference. Apparently Bill believed this dated leaf was included with the item, although the listing states it is not. Bill's mistaken belief may be why he was completely uninterested in an item comparable to the unavailable one, of which we have many.
Unhappy with our resolution: Although we thought we had agreed upon a resolution, namely, a refund of his money and fees, Bill stated he would be complaining to ebay. Since he seemed unhappy with our suggested resolution/s, we asked what other resolution he would prefer.
Refund made: Bill stated he wanted either the item he bid on or wanted his money refunded. Since Bill had already indicated he did not want the item he bid on and since the item was unavailable, this was not helpful. We complied with the only possible option of these two. We sent him $ 33.00, which was the amount he paid for the item with California sales tax and shipping, $ 31.00, plus an additional $ 2.00. We added $ 2.00 since Bill had paid out-of-pocket $ 1.27 for the money order and postage. (Postal money orders for a value less than $ 500.00 cost 90 cents and the first-class postage paid was 37 cents.) We mailed back his original USPS money order, via certified mail, along with a $ 2.00 check. According to the USPS website, these were delivered to Bill the following day.
Negative feedback left: The day after he received his payment and out-of-pocket fees back, Bill left negative feedback.
Further request for suggestion of satisfactory resolution: The following day, I sent another email asking him to please let us know what, if anything, we could do which he would consider a satisfactory resolution in this matter.
No meaningful response: Bill replied saying the best resolution for him would be if we stopped "bothering him."
Request for removal of feedback: Several days later, I sent Bill an official request for removal of the feedback. I asked if he would consider removing his negative rating since it seemed there was no lasting reason for it to remain and explained that otherwise, we would apply his reasoning and leave negative feedback for him because of his error in failing to read the description, which seems to have materially contributed to his dissatisfaction. We were hoping this extreme response would help him see things from our point of view. We stated we would allow at least 24 hours for him to consider this before taking any further action.
Response to feedback: When it seemed that Bill would not remove the negative feedback, I left an explanatory response to his feedback: "misleading; please see full story at www.tuscanybooks.net/bill.html".
Reciprocal feedback left: Several weeks later, after several more unsuccessful attempts at communication/resolution, we left reciprocal feedback for Bill for his lack of good faith in communication/resolution: "deliberately difficult during resolution; see www.tuscanybooks.net/bill.html"
Link to this page posted on our "about me" page: When it became obvious both negative feedbacks would remain, we posted a link to this page on our ebay "about me" page.
Email correspondence below: If interested in more details, please see full email correspondence with Bill, and timeline of events, below.
Contact me with any questions: Please email me with any questions or concerns at theresa@tuscanybooks.net
Timeline and Complete and Verbatim Reproduction of Email Correspondence:
Email from Seller tuscanybooks, Wednesday May 11, 2005 3:04 p.m.
hello Bill
Thank you for your money order, we received it yesterday.
Unfortunately it seems this item was listed in error, I can not find it! I sincerely apologize for this error.
Would you like to see pictures of a comparable bifold from the same work which we could substitute, for the same price? Or of course, I can return your money order (it did not get deposited yet).
If you would like me return your payment, I will enclose a check for $ 2.00 to cover the cost of the money order & your postage.
Please let me know. Again, I am very sorry, Bill.
Thank you for your understanding,
Theresa
Email from Bidder, Thursday May 12, 2005, next day
Dear Theresa: I am at a loss as to how you can put 3 pictures of the item and say that it was a mistake and that you do not have the item. I bid on the item mostly for the date that was indicated. Unless you can match me with another dated page, I will want my money back posthaste. Bill
Email from Seller tuscanybooks, Friday May 13, 2005 11:40 a.m., next day
hello Bill
thank you for your email.
Most likely the item went unsold in the original auction, was scheduled to be relisted, and sold in the meantime, without the bookkeeping catching up.
There may be some confusion; the colophon is the only dated leaf in the entire work, and is not included in the lot; it is shown for reference only.
If it is still your preference, I will mail your payment out to you early next week.
Thanks,
Theresa
Email from Bidder, same day 12:37 p.m.
Please rush me the money as I rushed it to you. I will be filing a complaint with ebay.
Bill
Email from Seller tuscanybooks 4:12 p.m., same day
Bill
Please let me know what resolution you would prefer.
Thank you for your response,
Theresa
Email from Bidder, Saturday May 14, 2005, next day
I either want what I bid on or my money back posthaste. I will still be filing a complaint with ebay.
Email from Seller tuscanybooks, Tuesday May 17, 2005, 5:44 p.m., 2 days later (certified tracking number edited for privacy)
Bill
Thank you for your response; we have complied with the second option of your request.
I mailed your payment back to you today, including the money order fees, certified, number XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX 0298, to ensure it arrives posthaste.
Thank you for your understanding.
Wednesday May 18, 2005, 12:52 p.m., next day
original money order and check for money order fees delivered to Bill via certified mail. (According to USPS records)
Thursday May 19, 2005, 12:24 p.m., next day
Negative feedback left by Bidder: "Item sold to someone else. VERRRRRY UHHAPPY WITH THEIR OPERATION!!!!!!!!!!!"
Email from Seller tuscanybooks, Friday May 20, 2005, 4:56 p.m., next day
Bill
I see from your feedback you are very upset over this incident.
I feel there must be some misunderstanding of what happened. We listed the item in error; this was clearly our mistake, but this was an unintentional error. We do not cause bidders, or ourselves, this kind of inconvenience intentionally. Had we known it was unavailable prior to listing it, we would not have listed it. Had we discovered our error during the auction, we would have ended the auction early.
While it happens rarely an item is listed in error, it does happen occasionally. Before this incident, this situation has never led to negative feedback or any lasting bad feelings, either with me as a seller, or with me as a customer. I feel I must be missing something.
We explained, apologized, refunded your money and more, and offered your choice from a selection of comparable items. These are the only options I am aware of, given we no longer have the item.
Moreover, it was my understanding you didn't even want the item since you apparently believed it was something other than what it was. You mentioned the date in the colophon was the reason for bidding on the item, yet the colophon was not included with the bifold you bid on. So, in this situation, it is irrelevant that the bifold you bid on is unavailable. In fact, this turn of events saved you from the chore of having to return it.
Do you feel negative feedback is warranted simply because a mistake was made? In other words, is it your practice to leave negative feedback anytime a seller makes an error in your transaction regardless of what the seller does to rectify it or when, as in this case, the worst that happened was you couldn't buy an item you did not even want, i.e., an undated incunable bifold?
I realize there are only 80 characters for explanation, but your feedback statement is misleading since it implies we sold the item to someone else in preference to selling it to you. I hope it is clear to you we did not do that. Even your form of expression, all caps and 11 exclamation points, leads me to believe there is something going on of which I am unaware, or you believe something happened during this transaction that did not actually happen.
I can only think of a few possibilities, the first of which is you feel our mistake in listing warrants negative feedback, regardless of proposed resolutions. How do you feel about your mistake in bidding on an item where you did not fully read the description? Is that mistake okay yet ours utterly unforgivable? Or, are you unhappy with our handling of the situation, after discovering the error? Do you believe we are lying about the item being unavailable? Do you want to punish us for your mistake in assuming the colophon was included, although the listing states it is not? Do you prefer to remain upset rather than resolve the situation? Does it simply tickle you to leave negative feedback and thereby damage our reputation? Is there any other possible explanation?
I do not enjoy hurting people or being negative, and that is why it is so difficult for me to understand your outrageous attitude, especially given the fact you did not even want the unavailable item. In my mind, there is no reason this should have been unpleasant or stressful, let alone have led to damaging feedback. If you would explain to me why you believed that action was appropriate, I would appreciate it.
I have asked before, but am asking again, please let me know what it is, if anything, we can do to resolve this in what you would feel is a satisfactory manner.
Sincerely,
Theresa
Email from Bidder, Saturday May 21, 2005, 8:46 a.m., next day
The best way to resolve this is to stop bothering me and I will stop bothering you.
Email from Seller tuscanybooks, Monday May 23, 2005, 2:42 p.m., 2 days later/next business day
Bill
Thank you for your response.
I am sorry you feel I am bothering you, but I believe my intentions have been made clear. In any case, as you suggest, I will be happy to stop "bothering" you when you in fact stop bothering us, which would entail removing your negative rating which is otherwise permanently marring our feedback ... would you consider doing that?
Since it appears there is no lasting reason for your feedback to remain, I hope you will. Otherwise, I would conclude you feel justified in it remaining simply because we made a mistake. Then by that logic, you should also receive negative feedback since you also made a mistake which contributed to this situation. If that is your idea of justice, we will oblige you; however, I would prefer not to do that.
If you, instead, remove the negative rating, I will not leave you any feedback at all. Later today, I will send you an official request for feedback removal. After I send it, I will wait at least 24 hours to see if you remove the rating, whether because you no longer feel it is appropriate, you do not want negative feedback yourself, or for any other reason. Feedback comments themselves cannot be removed, but the negative rating can be removed, if you agree.
Unfortunately you have put us in a position where we are compelled to explain your comments. Naturally we are concerned that potential customers may feel, based on your negative rating, we must have done something wrong or treated you in some unprofessional manner. Therefore I will publish the entire correspondence on our website so our customers can read for themselves the whole story. I take your feedback and the implication thereof very seriously and; as you know, there are only 80 characters allotted for a rebuttal of your feedback, which will not allow me to adequately explain the situation.
Theresa
3:55 p.m., same day
Formal feedback removal request sent through ebay's system by Seller tuscanybooks to Bidder
Tuesday May 24, 2005, 10:07 p.m., 1.5 days later
Seller tuscanybooks posted address (URL) to this page you are reading, for the first time, as a response to the Bidder's negative feedback (i.e., this URL showed on our feedback, not on the Bidder's feedback):
"misleading; please see full story at www.tuscanybooks.net/bill.html"
Email from Bidder, Saturday May 28, 2005 9:39 a.m., 4 days later, 5 days after feedback removal request, 7 days since last contact from Bidder
I am sorry that you feel that you have treated me in a professional manner as you truly haven't. You have made assumptions about me that are false. I even feel somewhat insulted by your statements in a previous e-mail to me. You assumed that I would act in a certain way without knowing me or how I have acted in a similar situation in the past.
And now you are making vague threats to me. Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that if I do not retract my negative comments from your record that you intend to make negative feedback about me that you would purposely enhance and claim that the 80 spaces limit prevented you from making a softening explanation. I am absolutely fascinated to find out about my "mistake which contributed to this situation".
Did I list something that I didn't have? Did I make me make a special trip to the post office to get a money order for this non-available item that I bought?
Did I make a misstatement in my negative feedback. Did you sell my purchase to someone else? Am I unhappy with the way I have been treated?
I have never dealt with you before and this transaction is my only interaction with you. I do not know from experience how truthful you are or how professional you are. I only hear from you that you relisted this item by mistake. How then was it sold to someone else? Obviously, no one bought this item from a previous auction. Did you sell it to someone else who saw it on ebay during the initial auction but didn't bid thus avoiding paying ebay a piece of the action? I don't know how you store your items that are listed on ebay and whether you have an open store. I really don't know much about your operation and how careless you are in handling your auctions but I see how you treat people and I do not like it at all.
Finally, you may remove the check you sent to me from your register as I have no intention of making a special trip to the bank to cash it.
Bill
Email from Seller tuscanybooks, Tuesday May 31, 2005 12:38 p.m. 2 days later/ next business day
Bill,
Thank you for your response; I do not know to what you are referring by way of assumptions or insults, so I can not address that.
It sounds as if you would like a more complete explanation of our error. After listing the item in ebay where it didn’t sell, we sold it through another outlet. Our bookkeeping error was in failing to delete the item listing from our cache of "unsold" items which ebay automatically keeps for us. This error then later resulted in us (re)listing for sale an item that was no longer ours to sell; it belonged to someone else. As far as your concern that ebay did not get a commission on our sale, I can assure you there is no requirement that a seller, once his item has failed to sell on ebay, not sell that item through any other avenue. Since you seem concerned with ebay’s rules and philosophy, you may be aware that they stipulate both parties should communicate and cooperate in an effort to resolve any issue, rather than considering that leaving negative feedback is a resolution in itself.
Bearing in mind the full chain of events, I do feel your negative feedback was unwarranted. Had you given us a chance, we would have gladly done anything in our power you suggested, within reason, not only to avoid negative feedback, but simply to resolve the situation in an amicable manner.
Although we made the error in listing an unavailable item, it takes two willing people to resolve an issue in a positive manner; you have been remarkably unhelpful in this regard. We did exactly what you suggested, namely, refund your money, yet you clearly don’t see that as a satisfactory resolution. I believe that you "deserve" negative feedback without question because of your unwillingness to date to resolve this in a positive manner. It is an opinion rather than a threat to say I think it is appropriate that we leave you negative feedback.
Moreover, the unavailability of the item seems moot: you stated you wanted "another dated leaf" as a substitute; the offered item was an undated bifold; the listing states the dated colophon was pictured for reference, to show the printing date and was not included in the lot; and, you showed no interest in seeing items comparable to the listed item. We agree that your error in failing to read the item description is not equivalent to ours, but your error certainly renders your focus on our error ludicrous, and makes your obstruction to a positive resolution even more incomprehensible.
I believe the proper use of negative feedback is to alert bidders to fraudulent or dishonest sellers and/or to alert sellers to bidders they may wish to preemptively block from bidding on their auctions. Any other use of negative feedback is punitive and therefore inappropriate.
I requested you tell us what we could do so you would no longer think your negative feedback rating appropriate. It so happens that if you removed your feedback rating, you would also simultaneously take away our opportunity to leave you feedback. You stated we should stop bothering you and you would stop bothering us; I have suggested how this could be accomplished. My suggestion is an attempt at resolution and is more of a courtesy than a threat. If we were looking forward to destroying your 100% rating, as you have done to us, we would have left you negative feedback long ago. The only reason we have not left you negative feedback already is because I am loath to do that, even where it is merited, until all possible opportunities of resolution have been exhausted.
As you requested clarification, I will spell out what I see as three options. Firstly, you could remove your feedback rating before we leave you feedback, in which case none can be left for you. Even if it were possible for us to leave you feedback after you removed your feedback rating, we would not do so. This option results in us both maintaining a 100% positive rating, and you having no feedback comment from us. Secondly, you could remove your feedback rating after we leave you feedback, within 30 days, after which time it is no longer possible to remove it. In this case, our feedback rating for you would also be removed, but not our comment; I have agreed in advance to mutual removal by initiating the request for removal. Or thirdly, you can allow your feedback rating to remain even after we leave you feedback, in which case neither of us will have 100% again. I prefer the first option, since it is the least damaging overall, but the choice is yours.
In the absence of any other information from you, I am brought back again to the conclusion that our error itself is apparently what you find unprofessional and therefore deserving of a negative feedback rating. If errors (alone) always resulted in negative feedback, we would not have had 100 % positive feedback after selling for 7 years on ebay, as I doubt any seller would who maintains a large number of listings. We value our customers and try hard to please them but we are not infallible, despite our efforts. A fair assessor, however, would take into account all factors, including the attitude of, and attempts to resolve by, the seller, rather than focusing on an unfortunate but uncommon error.
Therefore, I think it is wise to post the full and complete record as we have. Each reader can decide for himself whether our actions were unprofessional or otherwise warranted your negative feedback.
Theresa
Tuesday June 7, 2005 3:50 p.m., one Week Later, 9 days after last contact from Bidder and 3 weeks after he left his feedback
Seller tuscanybooks left negative feedback for Bill:
"deliberately difficult during resolution; see www.tuscanybooks.net/bill.html"
(Seller tuscanybooks posted this URL for the second time, now visible on Bidder's feedback)
Sunday June 12, 2005 3:45 p.m., 5 days later
Posted link to this page on our ebay "about me" page
(Seller tuscanybooks posted this URL for the third time)
________________
[End of Correspondence]
Note to Reader: If this was helpful or interesting to you, please see further text below.
To return to our home page, please click on the link below:
To see our ebay listings, please click on the link below:
Note to Reader/ Sellers: Tuscany Books originally published this incident above (2005) to satisfy what I thought would be the curiosity of our customers. Although the positive feedback clearly outweighs the singular negative feedback/s, still it is something a potential Bidder may wonder about. The situation with Bill is the only situation we have had that led to lasting, permanent negative feedback, therefore it was the only incident I published. I would not have considered publishing it in the first place had he been open to any reason at all. Many prominent eBay sellers seem to be able to maintain 100 % which is a miracle in itself in my opinion ... being committed to maintaining ours has required countless hours and caused many headaches. I felt the need to explain why our rating was now (then in 2005) 99.9%.
In the meantime, in the past 2 years since publishing this communication, I have been contacted by many eBay sellers who have told me that they have found this information very helpful and inspiring or at least entertaining! I wondered each time how they found our eBay listings (i.e. our "about me" page) since they were dealing in electronics or other completely different types of merchandise from what we deal in. Finally I realized (I asked) that these sellers were just finding this page, alone, when searching google or other search engines regarding topics such as: how to deal with the difficult eBay customer, negative feedback left spitefully or purchasing an item with the intent to leave negative feedback. They were then sending this page to other sellers for instructive purposes.
Hey, great ... if my way of handling these situations can be used to assist other similarly-oriented sellers, I consider it then to have been a much better use of my time and energy. Better still, maybe this type of abuse will not be as prevalent if more people refuse to let the “difficult customer” get away with this by inflicting a type of accountability on that customer. Or even better yet, perhaps this type of conduct can be deterred by publicizing it. If we can improve the quality and caliber of people using these online sites, it will mean less drama for us … as well as for eBay executives for that matter.
So in that spirit, I am publishing several other customer interactions in the hopes these will be helpful to other people. If that interests you, read on. As with the Story of Bill, above, the text has been redacted to protect the obnoxious. And me! :-)
___________________________________________________________
The Story of Jose
The Slandering Spainard
Transaction history: Item won on eBay ($ 30), paid & mailed via registered mail to bidder portainferi aka Jose in Spain. Bidder filed “non-received item” dispute at some time. I had proof of mailing - the registered number receipt. PayPal refunded the Bidder's payment to him.
Quite some time after refund, Bidder left negative feedback
August 21, 2007
Bidder left negative feedback:
“I have paid with paypal and the product has never sent me.Tuscanybooks = thieves”
______
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) August 21, 2007
JOSE!
We HAVE sent your item & we have been in communication with you ... why did you leave a negative feedback?
The item was sent July 2 USPS registered with the registered number of RA598319XXXUS.
It sounds as if the package hasn't arrived ... and then we will of course refund your money. We are not thieves and we also have no control over the package after it leaves our hands!
Your feedback is slanderous (illegal) obviously damaging and completely inappropriate to this situation. Please respond immediately.
Theresa H---
_________
(second email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
what is going on Jose?
I just realized this item was already a PayPal dispute, so you already have all the information on this transaction through that dispute!
The package did not arrive yet (I get that!) ... how does that translate into we did not mail it and we are thieves?? We mailed it (I have the registered receipt in my hand) & you have been refunded your money ... neither accusation in your feedback has any truth whatsover ... which makes it not only unnecessarily damaging and inappropriate, it makes it illegal.
Obviously we cannot control any package once it leaves our hands so delivery in any mail-transaction cannot be guaranteed... you must understand that surely? What we can do in such a situation is refund your money.... this has ALREADY been done however! I would have done it, but it was done automatically by PayPal.
Why in god's name did you leave a negative feedback? Why did you not send me an email first if you have some question? I have responded to all your emails I received. I have also put a trace long ago on your package through the post office. Spain has 60 days to respond to that trace from when it was filed.
What you have done to us would be the same as me saying about you "Buyer received the item but is pretending he didn't, portainferi = liar/thief." Is that the kind of feedback you would like? Does that feel fair to you?
Instead of just doing something as ridiculous and damaging as that, I prefer to resolve this situation in an adult manner. However we need to get this resolved immediately. Please respond accordingly.
Theresa H--
________
(email sent by Bidder) Same day.
My relation with you has been extremely unsatisfactory. I paid long ago through Paypal and I have not received the product. I promoted a dispute through Ebay and I followed without receiving the product. I have paid by a product that I have not received. I promoted a dispute through Paypal that you have not answered and Paypal has given the reason me. It is Paypal that has given back the money to me, not you. I am convinced that you me they have not sent it.
__________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
Dear Jose
Thank you for your response.
I am sorry it has seemed unsatisfactory. It has also been very unsatisfactory for us; however we are not simply leaving negative feedback for you, we are trying to resolve the issue.
Yes you paid a long time ago & we have mailed it a long time ago. We need to wait a long time since packages often take a very long time especially foreign packages. We have sent the item Jose, I have the registered receipt in my hand ... do you need me to fax this to you? You cannot punish us for something which is in the control of the post office, not us. That is not right.
You were refunded through PayPal since you initiated a dispute through Paypal. If the dispute were done via email with us, the payment would have been refunded directly by us. I don't see what the problem is there since you have your money refunded … obviously it came from us/ our account, not PayPal’s general coffers! I also do not understand why you say I did not respond to the dispute - I have responded to both the PayPal dispute and the eBay dispute (initiated today) - check the dispute consoles! Today I even called you in Spain!
Please let me know a fax number since that seems to be the remaining issue that you do not believe we mailed the package. Please also first ask yourself why we would do that. And why have we have (until this week anyway!) 100 % positive feedback after selling almost 10 years on eBay. I can guess it wouldn't be because we have a ridiculous habit like taking money and never mailing an item.
Please send fax number.
Thanks.
_________
Note to reader: No fax number received, no response to multiple emails, I eventually submitted the matter to Square Trade for mediation, Buyer did not respond to mediation. After several weeks in limbo in Square Trade, I finally left negative feedback September 13, 2007 three weeks after the Bidder left his, saying: “beware: registered mail receipt & money refunded prior yet left feedback: THIEF!” Square Trade removed his feedback 2 weeks later, October 1, 2007. Three weeks after that, we received the package back in the mail.
___________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) September 20, 2007
Your package was returned to us today. It was marked "no reclamada/ devuelto."
Did you ever check at your post office with the infomation I had given you, i.e. that it was mailed July 2, registered number RA 598 319 XXX US, to your paypal address (below)?
Jose L-- C---- O---
M----- 27, 6 D
Malaga, Andalucia 29016
SPAIN
Or were you so sure we refused to mail it & are "thieves" (for a $ 30 item! after selling for 10 years on eBay! with 100 % positive before you!) ... that you did not even bother to check at your post office with that information?
The item was sent via registered mail, there has to be a record that it arrived at your post office, when it arrived & how long it was held before it was sent back to us. According to the handwritten notes on the package, it was there by July 19, if not before.
Please respond.
__________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) 2 weeks later, October 3, 2007
Your feedback has been removed and eBay is well aware of this situation. They may or may not suspend your account (block you from using eBay) ... but I can assure you they *will* block/ suspend you if you do this again to anybody else.
Sir, you must have a very miserable life to want to damage people who have done nothing to you, and worse yet, show no interest in reversing the damage at a later point by removing your feedback. Ebay had to remove your feedback for you since you refused to voluntarily do so!
As an end result, we paid $ 12.95 out of pocket for your postage, had to call you in Spain, paid to get Square Trade/ eBay involved and have wasted many valuable hours. Meanwhile your package has been sitting at your post office since July and was returned as "unclaimed" last week. The feedback you left was untrue, unethical and not to mention illegal.
eBay blocking you from using eBay is the least of the issue ... if you did something similar where there is no jurisdictional issue (i.e. if you were in the USA, or I were in Spain) you will be sued in court for slander.
Luckily (for me) we are very different types of people. Therefore despite what you have done to us I wish you the best of luck.
Theresa H--
_________
(email from Bidder) next day October 4, 2007
You do not understand anything. The vote has been retired, because I have given my consent for it. You yes must have a miserable life: your profession is to destroy old books to make more money. Until never.
__________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
Thank you for your email. That is the first communication I have had from you in over a month, despite several emails and requests to you.
My profession is as an attorney and you are lucky we are not in the same jurisdiction Sir. If you had consented through mutual removal (much earlier,) my feedback for you would have been removed also ... maybe you "consented" by default, i.e. lack of response/ lack of defense to the mediation. Of course you cannot defend; what you did was indefensible.
The case was closed for non-response from you, after many weeks. Believe me I know, I was on top of J---, the mediator every day to close the case and remove your feedback. In any case, whatever the case is or was, what I understand Sir is that we had your god damn slander and lies showing for 6 weeks or more on our public business reputation.
Interestingly you have not apologized, which would be clearly warranted if you gave your consent to removal, wouldn't it? And it would be many weeks overdue at that. Yet instead you want to insult and accuse ... that is "rich" as we say here, and also humorous. You wanted to partake of our family's business, now complain about it? That is called attack ad hominem rather than addressing the issue which is your behavior Sir, not my family's business. What will you complain about next, my nationality (German)? My trade profession?
Still, I wish you the best of luck. Probably that is the just the kind of miserable person I am. And if you have something to say on the topic at hand, i.e. your feedback, why you left it, why it had to be on there for 6 damn weeks, why you didn't check at your post office, the impact and huge cost you have caused to us .... then that I would be happy to hear your view/ opinion etc on the actual topic. Random insults are not helpful and do not add to the discussion. I am angry, as I have a right to be. You my dear sir, have no such recriprocal right, to be angry at us.
________
Note to reader: No response received or further communication undertaken
[feedback rating eventually removed, involuntarily, through eBay/ SquareTrade]
__________________________________________________________________
aka the “worst person on eBay” award as far as I am concerned and the only person who I think should actually be criminally prosecuted for his conduct. We had this person to our home in the early days … and still he could not resist trying to defraud us.
_______
(email sent by Bidder, 79sallyharp to Seller tuscanybooks) Friday February 16, 2007
I paid for this lot, but never received it. What is going on???
[Attached to receipt for Dec 17, 2006 paypal payment regarding multiple eBay items]
______
(email sent by Bidder) immediately following above email
I also paid for this lot, but never received it. No more payments until you send everything I paid for!!!
[Attached to receipt for Dec 20, 2007 PayPal payment for multiple eBay items]
_________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
it was mailed William & it was delivered according to USPS
[Info cut & pasted off USPS website]
“Label/Receipt Number: 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX
Status: Delivered
Your item was delivered at 1:52 PM on December 22, 2006 in ESCONDIDO, CA 92046.”
________
(email sent by Bidder) Next day, Saturday Feb 17, 2007
It may have been delivered to the PO, but I never signed for it or took possession of it.
I WILL ONLY REPEAT THAT I DID NOT RECEIVE THIS PACKAGE!!! PROVE THAT I DID!!!
OTHERWISE.....
________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day
you will need to ask at your PO then ... they are closed Monday (a holiday) I believe.
__________
(email sent by Bidder) Same day.
The burden is on you to prove that I have received the parcel.
______
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
William,
Do you want to act like hostile litigants, or do you want your package?
Please let me know which it is.
_______
(email sent by Bidder) Same day.
I WANT MY PACKAGE!!!
__________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
Great, we want the same things then ... can you please inquire at your post office with that delivery confirmation number and let me know the result?
__________
(email sent by Bidder) Same day
I ENQUIRED AT THE ESCONDIDO POST OFFICE THIS MORNING. They said the following:
The inquiry must be initiated by the person who sent the parcel. And the inquiry must be initiated through the post office from which the parcel was sent.
I think YOUR responsibility is very clear.
________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) next postal day, Tuesday February 20, 2007
ok, if they do not have the package there, I will initiate a trace from this end.
Since it arrived at that post office, that was the logical place to start ... if they had it still but never put the slip in your box.
Thank you for checking on that end. Ultimately, you will either get the package, or you will get your money back of course ...
_______
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day. Tuesday Feb 20, 2007
William,
I got the claim form, I will submit later this week when I am at the main post office which is the only one which accepts the forms.
In the meantime, please keep checking with your post office ... it seems strange & nonsensical to start here, regardless of what may be the standard procedure, when we know it arrived there a long time ago.
Since you do not have it, I can only guess that means it is forgotten about in the back, and a slip was not put in your box. Please let me know if you get the package, I am very concerned about this. I thought everything was fine, since according to all information, the package arrived in proper course, the day after I mailed it.
please let me know, did you not receive this email (below) saying when this package was mailed (december 21) and the tracking number on the package?
best regards,
Theresa
[email below attached as forwarded message]
"service@paypal.com" Dear Tuscany Books,
You successfully created a shipping label using PayPal Shipping with U.S. Postal Service®. Your shipment details are below.
You can check delivery status of your package online at:
http://trkcnfrm1.smi.usps.com/PTSInternetWeb/InterLabelInquiry.do?origTrackNum=9101150134711715XXXXXX
Please note: Delivery status information is updated throughout the day, but most data is transmitted in the afternoon or evening. For example, if you mailed your Priority Mail® at 10:00 a.m., you might not be able to view the delivery status until the next day.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Shipment Details
Shipped From:
Shipped To:
Sally H---/Jason F----
Shipping Status: Shipped
Label Purchase Date: Dec. 21, 2006 11:10:49 PST
Carrier: U.S. Postal Service
_________
(email sent by Bidder) Same day.
Yes I got this email, but it was immediately followed by one which cancelled the printing of a label and the sending of the package. Unfortunately I did not save it because I didn't understand the significance of this.
C----
_____
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) 3 days later, Friday Feb 23, 2007
William,
I will be in Escondido next week, I am going to check myself at the post office - in which branch is the post office box 46----?
another question, the package was not addressed to you, it was addressed to the address on the PayPal payment for mailing:
Sally H-/ Jason F-
Are these pseudonyms or are they real people ... in other words, how many boxholders are there?
best regards,
______
(email from Bidder) Same day.
The one with this po box is the one on Mission Ave. Sally H- and I are joint box holders, but I would have signed for this parcel had it been delivered to me. You might ask for R--, a supervisor who frequently bring me my mail, for help.
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) 6 days later, Thurs March 1, 2007
I spent about 45 minutes at the Mission post office today. The package arrived at the post office and it was delivered ... to someone.
If it somehow *disappeared* from the post office, that is theft. The steps would be to file a police report & then have a federal postal investigation.
However the obvious first thing is, I need to hear, by phone, from Sally H----.
Please have her call me next week
(email from Bidder) Next day, Friday March 2, 2007
Did they provide written proof that it had been delivered.? If so, to whom??? I do not understand this situation. Please provide a satisfactory explanation. I paid you nearly $25.00 to ship this order safely and securely!!! What did I get for that money???
___________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
William,
It was sent safely & securely ... and to someone who is not you. I will look for her call next week when I am back in town.
Theresa
______________
(email sent by Bidder) Next day, Saturday March 3, 2007
Why don't you answer my questions???!!!
Sally H- is my 94 years old mother-in-law. As I am sure you learned at the post office, she and I are the joint box holders, but only I am authorized to accept mail from the box. She has not left her home for three years, other than to go to hospital or doctors' visits, and then I drive her. I am certainly not going to have her call you.
I remind you of your promise that I will either get the leaves I paid for, or my money back. It was your responsibility, under law, to deliver to me the items I paid for. You have not done so.
Perhaps if you answer my questions, below, we can both come to an understanding of what happened. Please also send me a scan of the post office receipt you received when you sent the parcel.
C--
_________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Next business day, Monday March 5, 2007
It's a pretty logical request William ... the items & package were not sold, or mailed, to you. According to the post office, the package was delivered, to the addressee, 3 months ago. It was sent priority mail with delivery confirmation, delivery is confirmed on Dec 22 via scan. There is no receipt from when it was mailed ... it was paid for online as you know.
Obviously the addressee will have to get involved in a claim for a lost package. As far as what did you get for your money ... I thought it was a joke if you were implying $ 25 is a lot to ship $ 1.200.00 worth of merchandise which we let you save up ... I didn't know, & still don't know, what I am supposed to say to that ... that doesn't warrant a response in my opinion.
If this now doesn't answer your questions, I suggest you talk to R---- next trip into the post office. I'm sure he can explain it better than I ... he is aware of the situation, I spoke to him at length. Your local post office where it arrived would be a better place to seek an explanation than from me ... as you know I do not have control over a package once it is in the postal system, ... yet you are very familiar with the system there at that branch, for distributing packages.
Then, you can let me know what you would like to do.
____________
(email from Bidder) Same day
It is incomprehensible to me that you would send $1200.00 worth of merchandise without signature confirmation or some other recorded means to assure delivery took place. So I do want to know exactly what you spent the $25.00 on! I have spoken to both R--- and to R--, the day shift supervisor. They both told me that there is no proof in the postal records that the parcel you sent to this post office was addressed to Sally H--. They also said that you were unable to provide any proof that it was addressed to Sally H-
You have the responsibility, in law, to deliver the merchandise I paid for and paid you to ship. You have not done that.
Frankly, I think you may be engaged in a scam. And that is exactly what I intend to tell the postal inspectors if I have to file a complaint with them.
You say that I or Sally H- picked up this parcel. PROVE IT!!! You say that I did not pay for this parcel. I suggest you examine the Paypal receipts. It clearly states that I, William C--, paid for these items.
As to what I want. It is what you promised, ie., my items or the full refund of my two payments to you.
C--
___________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Next day, Tuesday March 6, 2007
as you know, the postal receipt emailed to you, which I forwarded to you the other day, shows the address which was on that package, namely the address on the PayPal payment of December 17. I will cut & paste it here, since it seems you didn't read it.
Shipped To:
Sally H-/Jason F-
Shipping Status: Shipped
Label Purchase Date: Dec. 21, 2006 11:10:49 PST
Clearly there is no hope of collecting on insurance without signed statements by all people with access to that box, starting with the addressee. I do not know who those people would be, or even how many there are. I was not given that information; I was told that is public information only if it is a business box.
I will find out what needs to be done regarding filing a claim.
______________
(email from Bidder) Next day, Wednesday March 7, 2007
You refused to send it and I certainly didn't receive it.
C--
_________
(email from Bidder) Later the same day.
I met today with the Escondido Postmaster and with a postal inspector. I gave them copies of ALL of the emails that have passed between the two of us.
Briefly, they stated that without the receipt which you said you either sent me in an email or could not send me (in another email), you have no grounds to contest my claim against you. Where is that receipt, which you tell me you will cut and paste into another email??? They and I also do not comprehend, unless it was a deliberate act on your part, why you would send $1200.00 in merchandise and not include $1.40 for signature confirmation, especially since I had paid $25.00 for shipping. It really does strongly smell of fraud.
They also said that I had several options to pursue, either individually or collectively.
1. File a fraud complaint with the Postal Inspection Service.
2. Spend $23.00 and file a civil lawsuit against you at the Vista Branch of the Superior Court, claiming not only the full amount of what I paid you for these items, but also for any previous items paid for but not delivered during the past year. Also sue to collect interest on all monies you have misappropriated from me during that time. And also for unspecified damages to my business for failing to deliver merchandise necessary to conduct that business.
3. File a similar action in Small Claims Court for the maximum recovery permitted by that Court.
4. File a complaint against you with the State Bar Association and with the law firm for which you work.
If you have not restored to me the items I paid for or reimbursed me FULLY by money order by 5:00 pm PDT this Sunday, March 12, 2007, I will do ALL of these things on the following Monday morning.
As proof of MY reasonableness and honesty, I am willing to pay you for all outstanding auctions I have won, but not as yet paid for. Please send me an invoice and I will do so promptly. And please remember to include $1.40 for signature confirmation as part of any, at cost, shipping expenses.
C--
__________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Next day, Thursday March 8, 2007
Mr. C--,
Thank you for letting me know where you stand. Threats are not necessary nor are they appreciated.
As you know, the delivery confirmation number assigned to your shipment is 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX, and according to the U.S.P.S. website, the package arrived and was scanned in the next day, December 22, 2007, at the Escondido post office at 1:52 pm.
Once I have received the following declarations from you, I will get back to you.
Theresa H---
mailing address for return:
DECLARATION OF NON-RECEIPT OF PACKAGE,
William C--, is my true and correct legal name. I am one of two box holders of Post Office Box 46---- at the United States Post Office located at 1157 West Mission Ave, Escondido, CA 92046.
In 2006, I purchased multiple items on eBay, under sellername 79sallyharp and nelson4441, from Tuscany Books (sellername tuscanybooks). These items were paid for via PayPal, through elsacat88@------. One lot was purchased on December 17, 2006 for $ 844.16 and another lot was purchased on December 20, 2006 for $ 324.21, the total paid for these items, including shipping, was $ 1168.37.
According to Theresa H- of Tuscany Books, these items were mailed, priority mail, with delivery confirmation number 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX, on December 21, 2007 to the Post Office Box referenced below.
Sally H-/ jasonf-
I notified Ms. H-- for the first time on February 16, 2007 via email that I did not receive this package.
I along with Sally H- are the only box holders for this postal box and I hereby certify that I did not receive this package on December 22, 2006, or at any time since, nor do I know of anyone else who did receive this package. Further I certify that to my knowledge, no one else besides Sally H-- and myself have access to this box. Jason F- is a pseudonym.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing Declaration is true and correct. Executed in the city/town of ____________, California on the ___ day of March, 2007.
___________________________
DECLARATION OF NON-RECEIPT OF PACKAGE,
Sally H---, is my true and correct legal name. I am one of two box holders of Post Office Box 46--- at the United States Post Office located at 1157 West Mission Ave, Escondido, CA 92046.
Recently, I and/or my son-in-law, William C--, purchased some items on eBay, under sellername 79sallyharp and nelson4441, from Tuscany Books (sellername tuscanybooks).
I have had no contact with Tuscany Books regarding this package. I am informed by my son-in-law that according to Theresa H- of Tuscany Books, these items were mailed, priority mail, delivery confirmation 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX, on December 21, 2007 to the address below:
Sally H-/ jasonf-
William C-- and I are the only box holders for this postal box and I hereby certify that I did not receive this package on December 22, 2006, or at any time since, nor do I know of anyone else who did receive this package. Further I certify that to my knowledge, no one else besides William Ch-- and myself have access to this box. Jason F-- is a pseudonym.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed in the city/town of ____________, California on the ___ day of March, 2007.
___________________________
________
(email sent by Bidder) Same day
1. Jason F--- is my mother-in-law's dead husband's name. She likes to receive parcels in both of their names.
2. I am not returning these declarations to you unless I get from you a declaration in writing, signed by you, that upon your receipt of these declarations, which I will send by Registered Mail, you will send me, within 48 hours, a money order for the total amount of my payments to you.
3. Nothing has changed as far as the terms stated in my previous email. I intend to follow through on all of them on Monday morning, March 12, 2007, unless a complete settlement is agreed upon.
C--
__________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Next day Friday March 9, 2007
Mr. C--:
It seems we must be having a legal, or other type of, misunderstanding.
With those statements, we can, and will, begin to investigate the whereabouts of the package. Without those statements, we can do absolutely nothing ... but then, without those statements, there is nothing to be done, is there?
You seem stuck, or were earlier, on the position that we must prove, via signature, that you received a package that was not even addressed to you. You seem to believe if we cannot produce your signature, we have to refund you. On the contrary, we are, at this point, trying to establish the package was *not* received, so we can begin the investigation process.
To put this in legal terms, delivery will be presumed because of the postal records which indicate delivery via "delivery confirmation." That is legal evidence of delivery. It is not absolute proof of delivery to a particular boxholder, certainly not to you; rather, it is evidence of delivery, which creates a legal presumption. The addressee, along with you and any other box holder, then is in a position to rebut that presumption, if appropriate, by legal evidence. You seem to believe an email should be sufficient. It is not.
This means, if you are unwilling to sign a sworn statement of non-receipt, delivery will be presumed. Which further means, if you continue on this path, what we are then talking about is your garden variety shakedown, more legally referred to as fraud, attempted extortion and also slander, if your accusations are published to anyone, besides me.
I would like to believe that is not the case, and now that this has been clearly explained to you, I hope you will cooperate so we can resolve this matter. I will await your declarations, or a response as to why you are unwilling to sign a declaration of non-receipt. You can, of course, change the information on Jason F----, by interlineation, to reflect the accurate state. Also I noticed one of the years on the declaration is written as 2007 instead of 2006; that can be changed also.
Theresa H-
_______
(email sent by Bidder) 2 days later, Sunday March 11, 2007
You once promised that I would either get my items or a full refund. You have reneged on that promise. Why should I or any court believe you. I know my legal position far better than a third-rate lawyer.
It was your legal responsibility to deliver to me the merchandise I paid for. You have failed to do that. In law, I do not need to wait upon some 'investigation' before you refund my payments. Then I will cooperate in any investigation and waive my right to any recovery you make. That recovery would be solely yours.
I will repeat again that all my terms still stand as before. Monday morning, March 12, 2007, I will initate everything I stated in my previous email.
C---
__________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
Mr. C-:
My promise that Tuscany Books would either deliver or refund has not been reneged upon, in fact it has already been fulfilled.
Tuscany Books has written confirmation from U.S.P.S. that delivery took place after your shipment was delivered to your box. To help me further understand where you are misinformed, please explain to me your concept of what the United States Postal Service "Delivery Confirmation" is. How do you propose I have received this delivery confirmation from the U.S.P.S without having shipped you the package? You throw around cheap insults like referring to me as a third-rate lawyer, yet you flatter me intensely by implying I have the power to manipulate official postal records.
Please also explain to me what you think happened to the package after it was confirmed delivered to your P.O box and how Tuscany Books or I could have possibly been involved or are responsible. I believe that any reasonable third party would grasp the meaning of the words "Delivery Confirmation" especially when issued by a federally administered agency such as the U.S.P.S. Tuscany Books has fulfilled its obligation to deliver the shipment as evidenced by the Delivery Confirmation. Your further efforts ought to be directed at the United States Postal Service.
I have in the past been willing to correspond with you regarding this matter in spite of the fact that the items in question were won by bid by someone other than yourself and were mailed to someone other than yourself. I must hereby request that you provide a power of attorney authorizing you to act on behalf of Tuscany Books' customer, Sally H----. Before we can continue to seek a solution to this matter you must execute and return all declarations attached below as well as your power of attorney.
Further communications with me regarding this matter prior to my confirmed receipt of the above requested documents will be considered by me to be harassment.
Lastly, I would point out that I have been extremely patient in attempting to resolve your matter and dealing with your schoolyard brand of insults. It is only your refusal to officially declare under penalty of perjury that neither you nor any other box holder received the package, which has stalled the resolution of this dispute. You leave Tuscany Books no other alternative than to consider our own avenues of resolution, including, but not limited to, any or all of the following:
1. File a report with the Escondido Police Department referencing the relevant facts.
2. Request an investigation from the United States Postmaster General
3. File a report with the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Internet Fraud Unit
4. Report this incident to our eBay account manager (We are aware that you have been suspended pending an investigation)
5. Report this incident to PayPal
Tuscany Books will initiate any or all of the foregoing actions if we do not receive the declarations and power of attorney we have requested from you by 5:00 pm DST on Monday March 19, 2007. Please use signature confirmation, along with registered mail when you return the documents. Maybe courier service would be better yet.
Theresa H-
DECLARATION OF NON-RECEIPT OF PACKAGE,
William C-- is my true and correct legal name. I am one of two box holders of Post Office Box 46- at the United States Post Office located at 1157 West Mission Ave , Escondido, CA 92046.
In 2006, I purchased multiple items on eBay, under sellername 79sallyharp and nelson4441, from Tuscany Books (sellername tuscanybooks). These items were paid for via PayPal, through elsacat88@cox.net. One lot was purchased on December 17, 2006 for $ 844.16 and another lot was purchased on December 20, 2006 for $ 324.21, the total paid for these items, including shipping, was $ 1168.37.
According to Theresa H- of Tuscany Books, these items were mailed, priority mail, with delivery confirmation number 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX, on December 21, 2006 to the Post Office Box referenced below.
Sally H-/ jasonf-
Escondido, CA 92046
I notified Ms. H- for the first time on February 16, 2007 via email that I did not receive this package.
I along with Sally H- are the only box holders for this postal box and I hereby certify that I did not receive this package on December 22, 2006, or at any time since, nor do I know of anyone else who did receive this package. Further I certify that to my knowledge, no one else besides Sally H- and myself have access to this box. Jason F- is the name of my mother-in-law's deceased husband.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing Declaration is true and correct. Executed in the city/town of ____________, California on the ___ day of March, 2007.
___________________________
DECLARATION OF NON-RECEIPT OF PACKAGE,
Sally H-, is my true and correct legal name. I am one of two box holders of Post Office Box 46- of the United States Post Office located at 1157 West Mission Ave , Escondido, CA 92046 .
Recently, I and/or my son-in-law, William C-, purchased some items on eBay, under sellername 79sallyharp and nelson4441, from Tuscany Books (sellername tuscanybooks).
I have had no contact with Tuscany Books regarding this package. I am informed by my son-in-law that according to Theresa H- of Tuscany Books, these items were mailed, priority mail, delivery confirmation 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX, on December 21, 2006 to the address below:
Sally H-/ jasonf-
William C- and I are the only box holders for this postal box and I hereby certify that I did not receive this package on December 22, 2006, or at any time since, nor do I know of anyone else who did receive this package. Further I certify that to my knowledge, no one else besides William C----- and myself have access to this box. Jason F- is the name of my deceased husband.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed in the city/town of ____________, California on the ___ day of March, 2007.
___________________________
____________
(email sent by Bidder) Next day, Monday March 12, 2007
Since you will consider any further communication with you to be harassment, I cannot comply with your demands for further information.
C-
____________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) 15 days later, March 27, 2007
Mr. C-:
We have told you many times and many years ago we cannot do business with you, and we have blocked your original eBay user name, elsacat, years ago. Yet you have continued to trick us into doing business with you by bidding on our eBay items under different names.
It is unfortunate we cannot do business with you due to your aggressive nature, your insults, your refusal to cooperate and your threats. You even threatened further that you would sue for in addition to this package, "previous items paid for but not delivered during the past year" and "to collect interest on all monies ... misappropriated ... during that [year]," and also "for unspecified damages to [your] business." This type of attitude and behavior is not consistent with a good customer. As a result, we will not do business again with you, under any circumstances.
You have used at least 6 eBay usernames, including, but not limited to, elsacat, 5307george, 63orioles, 79sallyharp, nelson4441 and chmurny, all of which have been deactivated by eBay, one by one. You have also used at least 4 different names besides Dr. William W. C---- Ph.D., including George E----, Sally H----, Tom Thumb and Jason F----. You have used at least 5 email addresses: elsacat88@---, tom182@---, sallyharper@----, ebay401@----- and 6000@----; and at least 3 mailing addresses: (1) PO Box 46----, Escondido, CA 92046; (2) 2- Washingtonia Drive, San Marcos, CA 92078 and (3) 4--- Black Oak Ave, Frederick, MD 21701. These bidding practices are clearly not ethical nor are they legal. Neither is attempted extortion.
I find it very interesting that you claim, 8 weeks to the day after the package in question was confirmed by the United States Postal Service as delivered to your post office box, that you did not receive it. Even more compelling is the fact that you will not put that allegation in writing in order to have any hope of reimbursement.
Almost as amazing to me is how many times you have mentioned that you have paid $ 25 to ship nearly $ 1,200 worth of merchandise. I can only assume this shipping cost upsets you so much because in the course of our past sales to you, when we were naive about you, we graciously allowed you to personally meet me to pick up your purchases, saving you all shipping costs, a privilege which you have abused and destroyed over the years.
However what I find to be even more disturbing than all of the above, is your willingness to continue to do business with us in light of your alleged complaint. It is absurd that you asked for, as "proof of [YOUR] reasonableness and honesty," an invoice for other items won but not paid, almost in the same breath as accusing us of fraud, threatening to sue us and to report me to the State Bar, and this at a time when we allegedly owe you nearly $ 1,200.
The only explanation for your willingness to continue to do business with us is that you did in fact receive the package in question, as well as every other package. Equally disingenuous as your claim that you did not receive the package, is your statement that you will cooperate in any investigation, after we refund you out of pocket, but not before.
This is a formal demand and official warning: do not bid on any of our items again, under any name, real or fictional, or any eBay username.
Theresa H-
_______
(email sent by Bidder) same day
I gather you do not consider emails to me to be harassment. Your formal statement is full of outright lies and distortions. I look forward to pursuing this matter through the courts, the state bar association, and your employer. Since your behavior borders on the psychotic, I have no doubt of my success.
________
(email sent by Seller tuscanybooks) 1 week later, April 3, 2007
Mr. C-:
What I am is professional, factual and honest, unlike you. You refer blankly to "outright lies and distortions" yet neither define nor respond to any of these alleged lies or distortions.
As usual you insult and/or threaten blindly; you do not address the main issue. However, in the absence of other information, I assume that we are in agreement that you will not attempt to do business with us again. In the case that you not surreptitiously bid on our items against our wishes, I will have no reason to send further email to you.
Theresa H-
_________
Note to reader: No response from Bidder. No further contact, so far one year. All user ID’s were shut down before he could leave negative feedback. I did not leave any feedback.
_________________________________________________________________
(email from Buyer lareincestmoi) March 4, 2008
I won this won and 140209540042- {…} [I want to pay with check.]
Can you send both prints together to save on shipping?
thank you in advance,
Elizabeth G-----
____________________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Same day
thank you for your bids.
we accept PayPal or money order.
shipping for two prints will be $ 6.32 within the U.S.
best regards
www.tuscanybooks.net
_________________
(email from Buyer) Same day.
You won't take a personal check? I have a Paypal credit card but as I read it-I get charged 2% of the transaction amount to use it-which I believe is outrageous.
I'm not running around getting a money order-I don't even know how-I've never had any one refuse a personal check-you can hold on to the merchandise til the check clears.
Where does this leave us?
Best,
Elizabeth G-----
_______________________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
Elizabeth,
that is what is says in our listings, we take PayPal and money order ... however it's not worth fighting over! (If it will make you happy to send a personal check, send a personal check.)
One can purchase a money order at any post office, at any 7-11, at many grocery stores...
Thanks
www.tuscanybooks.net
______________________________
(email from Buyer) Same day.
Thanks Teresa,
I'm new to ebay so I guess I'm just not understanding the payment options on the site. I didn't realize that when the credit card logos are under the Paypal sign it means Paypal credit cards only. I thought it meant Paypal and all other non paypal credit cards.
It's obviously a pain to you but it is a good education for me-next time I'll be more careful-sorry you have to undergo this. I'm sure you're very busy-my apologies.
I happen to be disabled and just fell on ice-so I'm not moving too well-which made me a little testy in my response and why it's easier to put a check in the mail if I can't use a regular credit card-the mailman picks it up at the door.
I will put a check in the mail tomorrow and send you an email when I have done that so you can gauge how long for it to get to you. Just let me know when it clears.
My apologies again-I should have explained better but I was in pain.
Best,
___________________
(email from seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
That is fine Elizabeth, thank you for explaining.
I hope you feel better.
best regards
www.tuscanybooks.net
______________________
March 19, 2008
Buyer left negative feedback:
“IDIOTS-NO REPUTABLE DEALER WOULD SHIP WITH SHIPPING TUBE-WON'T BUY AGAIN”
and the more subdued:
_____________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Same Day
What the heck is with your feedback Elizabeth??
You have destroyed our 10 year 100 % positive feedback ... and I did not hear anything from you prior to this feedback!
I mailed your items immediately after receiving your check, which we don't even accept checks. How was I nasty? Or an idiot?!
This is outrageous. Please respond.
Thanks
_______________
(email from Buyer) Same day
Quite frankly-you're response about the check was quite flippant and undeserved.
I received no notification that the prints had been shipped so I had no idea when to expect them. I received them yesterday.
Third and most important, I was shocked and appalled to receive the leaves in a mailing tube, rolled up. In the two years I've been dealing with print dealers all over the world, the number one rule is that a print/leaf/incunabula is ALWAYS shipped FLAT and extremely well protected. A mailing tube is verboten.
You apparently aren't aware of this-I was flabbergasted. Aren't you aware that rolling 500+ year old paper can weaken the integrity of laid paper? And you shipped the two sheets touching each other rolled up! There was nothing you could do at that point-the damage had been done.
I have destroyed nothing. I am sure that your current and future customers are intelligent enough to decide for themselves whether they are satisfied with your product, your shipping methodology and your transactions.
As always, one should take this as a learning lesson for improvement-especially how to ship incunabula. I have. I will always inquire about how a vendor packs the product from now on before bidding.
Truth is never outrageous.
Sincerely,
_______________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Same day
Thank you for your response.
I was not flippant - that was never my intention. However email has no tone of voice and tone can be inferred and I am sorry if anything came across that way. Elizabeth, we have dealt in prints for over 25 years and shipping in tubes is standard. That is how we receive items from auction houses and how we ship items.
Calling us idiots and unreputable in a public forum is slanderous ... especially without contacting us first was not right. Maybe since you felt I was "flippant" you felt this was appropriate. In any case in reality, I was not. And therefore I almost fell off my chair when I saw your feedback today. You have ruined my day that is for sure!
However regardless of all that ... my question is regarding these items - do you want to keep the items? Do you want to return them? What is your intention?
Thanks.
________________
(email from Buyer) March 21, 2008, Next day
I have not indicated to you that I was returning the items-I 've implemented proper preservation techniques.
I don't have the power to ruin your day-only you do.
My intent is to end any further conversations about this transaction.
______________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
yeah, I get you want no further communication - no kidding ... and, that may not be an option. You have gone a little too far.
When you use words like "idiots," "nasty," "not reputable" and all caps all in one short line of text it is clear there is more going on than can be accounted for by this transaction or our business practices. You are mad, period ... yet I have done nothing to you. It is not ok to destroy our rating and damage our business because you are mad, you are in pain, or any other similar reason.
In reality, you stated you would not pay with the methods we accept, which were clearly in the listing. So I let you pay the way you wanted to pay and didn't even wait clearance time. You already made me nervous since you seemed itching to take offense or create some type of problem from the beginning. As it turns out, my instinct was correct ... I see now you have had very few eBay transactions and already have negative feedback ... and I haven't even left yours yet! You have also left negative feedback for multiple people, including us, without communicating first. That means you want to punish, not resolve and that is a violation of eBay rules. More importantly slanderous feedback is illegal.
So, you weren't familiar, you didn't read the listing, you assumed something else ... whatever the case..., you apologized. Ok, great, I thought everything was now fine. If I was "flippant," and/or"nasty," why would you apologize to me? Your apology would be very unnecessary in that case. However it was appropriate as you did not read the listing. The time to clarify payment methods would have been before you bid not after. Far from nasty ... what I was, was accomodating of your request, if you can call it that, to pay another way.
We send out over 100 packages per week, for almost 10 years - yet we had 100 % positive before you came along. I have left two (2) negative feedback in 10 years. It is not something I enjoy doing, or choose to do "flippantly." We send over 500 packages per month, which leads to something like 60,000 packages in 10 years, most of which are mailed in shipping tubes. If you are the only person upset by this practice, you might have to consider maybe it is your reaction and not our practice which is out of whack. We have been in this business over 25 years while you have been collecting for 2. If you did choose to return the items, you could in fact use the same tube to ship them back. Dry paper does not damage other dry paper. And if the items were damaged in some way, that is more reason to return them.
The word "idiot" is not productive and clearly not geared toward forward movement. It is punitive and meaningless, i.e. it is not "true," it is not factual, it is not provable by logic. Your feedback contains nothing "true" - not about us anyway. The only truth it contains is the unwritten, which is that you are an angry woman and you are making other people pay for it.
Our options are I also leave you negative and/or submit the matter to eBay for resolution ... or we resolve it ourselves - like adults. Which do you prefer? I prefer the latter, so I ask again, if there were a resolution, what would resolution be?
___________
March 24, 2008, 3 days later
mutual feedback removal request sent by Seller tuscanybooks to Buyer
______________
March 25, 2008, 24 hours after feedback removal request, one week after Buyer left feedback, and 4 days after last communication from Buyer
negative feedback left by Seller tuscanybooks for Buyer:
"no communication, no resolution allowed or wanted, righteous derogatory dabbler."
and: "no interest in resolution, acts in bad faith, a real day-brightener, this one"
____________________
(email from Buyer) March 25, 2008, Same day
Well Theresa, you have gotten what you want-I have withdrawn the feedback.
AS ONE ATTORNEY TO ANOTHER, let's just agree to disagree.
I think we're done-so in the interests of your sanity, I have blocked any more email from you.
Have a great life.
___________________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Same day
you have removed one of two, thanks.
When you remove the other, 140209540042 then we will be done.
Otherwise I will have to go through another avenue to have it removed.
_____________________
(email from Buyer) Same day
I didn't realize there were two.
I believe I've accomplished the second one. Please confirm
________________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Same day.
done, thanks
__________________
(email from Buyer) Next day
For my edification-could you please explain how this feedback withdrawal works?
I read your comment-as you are an attorney-you are quite aware of the legal term of art "acting in bad faith" and it's legal implications-in the case of libel.
My actions and emails never rose to the standard of acting in bad faith-and you know that. So what's your justification for using it?
_________________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) Same day
If anyone needs a justification for what they wrote it is you my dear.
Everything you have done is in bad faith as far as I am concerned: destroying our 100 % rating over your personal reaction to a standard practice, using derogatory language, not communicating prior to - or after -that.
You refused to communicate or resolve the issue, that is bad faith when you have damaged our business with your flippant emotional post. In fact there was no issue and nothing to resolve as far as you were concerned, as you wanted to keep the items and they were not damaged. You just wanted to punish us for some reason unknown and damaged our reputation in the process. That is bad faith my dear.
In my opinion over the age of seven no one should use the word idiot, surely directed at a stranger and never in a business setting - even private email ... you put this on a public permanent business record. I am floored you as an attorney would even consider doing that, especially when I made several exceptions for you ... this was your reaction to that? I find that very curious. [**] I mailed you the items immediately after I received your check ... in the hopes that would satisfy you. Good luck there.
What you did to us is not the first time you have done something similar... as a result you had 66 % positive ( 34 % negative) before agreeing to the removal. Now 80 % positive after. That alone might clue you that your methods are not acceptable.
Let's put it this way, I am not concerned over anything I wrote. I am also no longer concerned over what you wrote, since the rating has been removed. Ebay will catch up with you at some point if you continue your practices ... or worse, they won't and someone will sue you eventually.
My opinion, my advice - take it for what it is worth to you. If you think there's nothing wrong with what you did, you want to now blame me ... knock yourself out.
__________
(email from Buyer) March 27, 2008. Next day
Thanks for the answer-it tells me the level of your legal skills and business acumen. Very enlightening.
We're done. the email block occurs now.
________________
(email from Seller tuscanybooks) March 30, 2008, 3 days later
fyi re feedback removal process, if you had initiated removal yourself or agreed to remove (or even responded to me) when I sent the requests for resolution and/or the request for removal, my comments would not have been there in the first place.
Meaning, the content of mine is pretty well moot as a practical matter ...,if you had removed the ratings at any time before I left my comments- 1 week after you left yours and 24 hours after I sent the request for removal - I could no longer have left feedback; no one can leave additional feedback after the mutual withdrawal is agreed to. That is how it works. Which is to say I gave you every chance to not get a negative rating or negative comments yourself ... and that is what we call *good* faith.
[feedback removed voluntarily by Buyer]
__________________________________________________________________
Instead there is an intent to punish and or to be ‘right’ and of course make the seller ‘wrong.’ (As in “Bad seller, Bad!”) I am generally very patient and respectful and yet I admit I have little patience and no respect for this type of behavior. That attitude is apparent in some of these interactions and so there’s some sarcasm on this page … you the reader will have to forgive me if I don’t always take the highest road available. I am honest, I am authentic, and… I am human.
Note on eBay’s feedback policies: EBay seems very Buyer-friendly, or Buyer-biased whether they *have* to be - legally, or choose to be, I don’t know ... and I am not making eBay wrong. (“Bad eBay, bad!”) They have many more things to consider than I am aware of and they also have legal constraints ... I have to trust they make the best decision possible based on the options available to them. For all I know, many Bidders find eBay to be Seller-friendly or Seller-biased. The fact is they cannot make everyone happy – I get that - and in any case, some eBay personnel such as our account manager Ed are actually quite helpful and sympathetic.
Currently, eBay is contemplating allowing only the Buyer in a transaction to leave negative feedback, meaning the Seller could not do so, whether or not the Buyer does so. The rationale for this seems to be that the Buyer is taking a bigger chance by sending money to a stranger. I have to disagree with that especially when I mentally revisit the “non-received item” disputes I have had to participate in.
I have to disagree also with the wisdom of this idea because if the Buyer has negative feedback, it is pretty meaningless whereas a good reputation is extremely important for the Seller to create customer confidence. The worst that can happen to a Buyer is he could be blocked from bidding on an item if his feedback is truly horrendous - and the Seller notices that. In that case, he can have his friend bid on the item for him, or he can get another eBay user ID, ditching the one marred by bad feedback. Sellers don’t have that option ... name-recognition and longevity are the whole game.
As of the time of this writing, these feedback changes have not been implemented, and maybe they won’t be. But either way, the bottom line is, if you are going to sell on eBay or any online auction site with any regularity, you will eventually encounter your own Bill, William, Jose and/or Elizabeth. Ebay cannot monitor everything and in any case, no one really cares as much as you about your own reputation, right? Right.
And that ladies and gentlemen, is my Platform. :-)
In conclusion (really!) I hope you have found this instructive or at least amusing. If you have read this far, you know I am committed to squelching this type of abuse. To that end, you may feel free to use this text as your own - as is, or adapt it to your own situation. If you need extra advice, you may call or email me.
I also enjoy hearing comments, suggestions and stories. If you think I am way off the mark on something, I would like to know. I *am* actually open to feedback, no pun intended.
~ To your success!
Tuscany Books
Torrance, California
email: theresa@tuscanybooks.net
P.S. Stay tuned for my next web treatise on the Meaning of Life. Or perhaps instead it will be on the mating habits of the small yellowish-green horned tree frog which dwells only at the southernmost tip of Australia, is visible solely in the month of May, appears indigo during a full moon, and fuchsia on Christmas Day.
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:10:49 -0800
Subject: You created a shipping label with PayPal Shipping
To: Tuscany Books
From: "service@paypal.com" service@paypal.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tuscany Books
4733 Torrance Blvd.
# 856
Torrance, CA 90503
United States
PO Box 46----
Escondido, CA 92046
United States
Service Type: Priority Mail® (2-3 days)
Note from Seller: thank you!
----------------------------------------------------------------
PO Box 46-
Escondido, CA 92046
Theresa
(310) 378-0159
PO Box 46-
Escondido, CA 92046
United States
Carrier: U.S. Postal Service
Service Type: Priority Mail® (2-3 days)
[…immediately after another one of his accounts was deactivated, I having been in contact with my account manager Ed, and he having reported this Bidder to Trust & Safety in the meantime]
Tuscany Books
4733 Torrance Blvd.
# 856
Torrance, CA 90503
Delivery Confirmation # 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX
PO Box 46---
Escondido, CA 92046
William C--
Delivery Confirmation # 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX
PO Box 46-
Escondido, CA 92046
Sally H-
Tuscany Books
Tuscany Books
Delivery Confirmation # 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX
PO Box 46-
William C-
Delivery Confirmation # 9101 1501 3471 1715 XXXX XX
PO Box 46-
Escondido, CA 92046
Sally H-
Tuscany Books
Tuscany Books
The Story of Elizabeth
The Angry & Righteous Dabbler
Theresa
Theresa
Elizabeth
Theresa
“Idiots-no reputable print dealer would mail in shipping tube-nasty-wn't buy agin”
Theresa
[End of published correspondence]
eBay seller ID: tuscanybooks
April 14, 2008
phone: (310) 378-0159
www.tuscanybooks.net
Ebay listings